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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 4 post(s)
Destiny Corrupted Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company 1002	Posted - 2012.10.08 00:33:00 - [1] - Quote Matriarch Prime wrote: I really don't get this. Ganking is an inherently asymmetric activity. The devs made you have to work for it, because they know, if the target is worth it, you'll use however many ships it takes. They just increase where that minimum lay. Which is fine. What I don't understand is how it is fine for the ganker to not fit tank, but the it is somehow a failing on the gankee's part to not fit enough. Neither is an optimal strategy. So lets not play dumb. Because CONCORD is a kill trigger. It doesn't matter how much tank a ganker fits since at the end of the sec-based timer, CONCORD just instantly gibs your ship, despite what you might think just because you see normal damage notifications up to that point. Also, LOL at all the people who think the Tornado is some kind of ambrosial boon bestowed upon gankers by CCP. Guess what? An Armageddon has the same amount of alpha, if not more due to sentry drones, and costs only about 10% more. A normal Tech I cruiser like the Rupture or Thorax pumps out more damage than any destroyer, and while they cost 500% more, the actual difference is only a few million in absolute terms. Being given alternatives doesn't constitute a buff. Having your base EHP multiplied by five does. (USER WAS BANNED FOR THIS POST)
Destiny Corrupted Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company 1003	Posted - 2012.10.08 02:27:00 - [2] - Quote So if the price of exhumers tripled tomorrow due to some 0.0 moon goo drama, would CCP have to triple their EHP to compensate? (USER WAS BANNED FOR THIS POST)
Destiny Corrupted Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company 1007	Posted - 2012.10.08 03:06:00 - [3] - Quote The only thing worse than a terrible opinion is an uninformed terrible opinion. (USER WAS BANNED FOR THIS POST)
Destiny Corrupted Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company 1009	Posted - 2012.10.08 05:15:00 - [4] - Quote I think what we need to do is find a way to push Hulk prices above half a billion, along with the other exhumers. Then have another Hulkageddon, and see what comes out of that. I have twenty bucks on carebears whining about ganking being too cheap, but then again, I'm a fool for familiarity. (USER WAS BANNED FOR THIS POST)
Destiny Corrupted Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company 1011	Posted - 2012.10.08 05:30:00 - [5] - Quote I think that miners should simply be given the pvp flag option. That would solve everything. (USER WAS BANNED FOR THIS POST)
Destiny Corrupted Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company 1013	Posted - 2012.10.08 05:34:00 - [6] - Quote James Amril-Kesh wrote: Destiny Corrupted wrote: I think that miners should simply be given the pvp flag option. That would solve everything. No it wouldn't. PVP flag just changes the time it takes for your ship to disappear after you log out. I mean give them the option to be completely immune to aggression. It's what this game desperately needs. Players should be able to choose how they play without being forced to suffer by basement-dwelling sociopath virgins. (USER WAS BANNED FOR THIS POST)
Destiny Corrupted Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company 1013	Posted - 2012.10.08 05:39:00 - [7] - Quote Darth Gustav wrote: Destiny Corrupted wrote: James Amril-Kesh wrote: Destiny Corrupted wrote: I think that miners should simply be given the pvp flag option. That would solve everything. No it wouldn't. PVP flag just changes the time it takes for your ship to disappear after you log out. I mean give them the option to be completely immune to aggression. It's what this game desperately needs. Players should be able to choose how they play without being forced to suffer by basement-dwelling sociopath virgins. But farms of monkeys and lesser apes should be allowed to mine in high-sec? Intriguing notion. People who kill other people in video games have no place anywhere in modern society. At this point it's simply a waiting game until they die out, and humanity can finally have world peace. (USER WAS BANNED FOR THIS POST)
Destiny Corrupted Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company 1013	Posted - 2012.10.08 05:41:00 - [8] - Quote James Amril-Kesh wrote: Destiny Corrupted wrote: James Amril-Kesh wrote: Destiny Corrupted wrote: I think that miners should simply be given the pvp flag option. That would solve everything. No it wouldn't. PVP flag just changes the time it takes for your ship to disappear after you log out. I mean give them the option to be completely immune to aggression. It's what this game desperately needs. Players should be able to choose how they play without being forced to suffer by basement-dwelling sociopath virgins. Are you sure you're old enough to be playing this game? I dunno bro, wanna get on Xbox live with me to play a round of CoD and find out? (USER WAS BANNED FOR THIS POST)
Destiny Corrupted Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company 1014	Posted - 2012.10.08 05:47:00 - [9] - Quote James Amril-Kesh wrote: Jorma Morkkis wrote: Darth Gustav wrote: That's because "they" pay a flat rate, not for the hulls. And yet gankers use that sponsor money to get those hulls. If they can't gank 10 exhumers with 100M worth of hulls it means it's unprofitable... Do you know what profitable even means in this context? It's not as if the ganker gets the entire cost of the exhumer he ganks... You might have hit on something here... I'm starting to wonder if the bears think that pvp is some kind of zero-sum game where the winner gets everything the other guy owns. It would explain many things. It would certainly explain why they can't grasp why losing an 80-million Tornado in exchange for making 20 million from loot and salvage is unprofitable. (USER WAS BANNED FOR THIS POST)
Destiny Corrupted Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company 1015	Posted - 2012.10.08 06:02:00 - [10] - Quote Touval Lysander wrote: Destiny Corrupted wrote: I'm starting to wonder if the bears think that pvp is some kind of zero-sum game where the winner gets everything the other guy owns. It would explain many things. It would certainly explain why they can't grasp why losing an 80-million Tornado in exchange for making 20 million from loot and salvage is unprofitable. Actually we can grasp it. We just can't figure why you'd want to "risk" so much for 20m? You can make that in 20 minutes or less if you stayed "home". Because we don't do things purely for profit. Getting killmails, making a statement, manipulating the markets, collecting tears/threats are all reasons why we gank. But if you'd like to know arguably the most important reason, it would be because this is our way of taking vengeance against the people who are responsible for this game being dumbed down and casualized. (USER WAS BANNED FOR THIS POST)
Destiny Corrupted Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company 1015	Posted - 2012.10.08 06:24:00 - [11] - Quote Touval Lysander wrote: So stop talking **** about it being profitable/unprofitable. Use one of the "other" motivations as a reason and just do it ffs. Because while the other motivators are really powerful, ganking is quickly becoming an activity that is financially impossible. We went from losing maybe 20-30 million per gank, to losing almost 100, if we do the pre-insurance-nerf Armageddon to post-insurance-nerf Tornado comparison. And that was pre-EHP buff. Now, it would take at least five of those ships to make a kill. Who knows how many it will take tomorrow? Would you say that those other reasons justify spending a billion ISK to take out a mining barge? Is that balance? (USER WAS BANNED FOR THIS POST)
Destiny Corrupted Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company 1015	Posted - 2012.10.08 06:30:00 - [12] - Quote Darth Gustav wrote: Pipa Porto wrote: Quote: The easymode piracy seal-clubbing days are over. The devs have corrected the issue fortunately. CCP has laid down how EVE is supposed to work and so your arguments of what you personally think EVE is supposed to be are both pointless and moronic. Now stfu and get back to your basement or find another game you don't feel the need to constantly cry about. Oh, it's not what I personally think EVE is supposed to be. GÇ£Eve is very dark,GÇ¥ confirms creative director Torfi Frans +ôlafsson. GÇ£ItGÇÖs harsh. It is supposed to be unforgiving. The original designers played a lot of Ultima Online, which was a fantastic sandbox game, and it allowed you to be very devious and very immoral in the way that you played. What they loved about it is that player killers, the griefers - people who just went around and killed other people - became so unpopular that other people banded together. Good started fighting evil, and without true evil you canGÇÖt have true good. So you had these bands of righteous people chasing player killers, and those player killers were the original Eve designers; they created a game about that mechanic.GÇ¥ CCP Wrangler wrote: EVE is a dark and harsh world, you're supposed to feel a bit worried and slightly angry when you log in, you're not supposed to feel like you're logging in to a happy, happy, fluffy, fluffy lala land filled with fun and adventures, that's what hello kitty online is for. It's what the guys who created EVE wanted it to be. Let's hope it still is. Do those people still even work here? We have Greyscale and Soundwave now. They're here to save our souls and lift our spirits from the rotten pits of depravity. (USER WAS BANNED FOR THIS POST)
Destiny Corrupted Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company 1015	Posted - 2012.10.08 06:33:00 - [13] - Quote Touval Lysander wrote: Darth Gustav wrote: I like how you conveniently get to tell people what not to bring up that you don't like and cannot really formulate an argument against. You're doing well. Darth, join a highsec mining corp and gank +¬m from within. Absolutely FREE kills. 100% profit - NO lost ship. Few alts. Keep on it. You'll make a bloody fortune. Now MUTLIPLY that by 10,000, 20,000 - whatever. THAT'S adapting. (ofc, not wanting to be roflstomped on this - I've been away - I'm assuming corp kills still legal?) The problem is that this method is going to be the last viable method to kill the bears very shortly. I'll forgive you for thinking that we aren't aware of its existence, but are you really that much of an idiot to think that CCP won't focus their Lidless Eye on it when the bears make it the next big thing to whine about? (USER WAS BANNED FOR THIS POST)
Destiny Corrupted Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company 1017	Posted - 2012.10.08 07:01:00 - [14] - Quote Darth Gustav wrote: Oggat wrote: baltec1 wrote: Oggat wrote: The trouble with this whining that I have is, you can kill Mackinaw's cheap. You just can't do it solo or with your alt. You need a small group. 8 or 10 T1 Desi will take down a macki and for next to no ISK. You **** and moan about miners and all you want is to emulate them at a different task. EVE is what EVE has always been. Gank beat Tank. Always has, still does. Ganking miners is now true to forum. You need to actually GANK them though. If theres no isk to be made from it then people won't do it. This is why 99.9% of ships in highsec are left alone. The same holds true for mining. Gank them enough they stop doing it. CCP chose to keep mining as active content. I support the decision. It can be repeatedly demonstrated that ganking campaings raised the prices of materials successfully brought to market by miners. Successful miners earned more. That is the effect of ganking on mining. A net benefit. It's fine bro, they can just mine more when mineral prices start scraping the floor of the mud huts they live in. That way they'll increase their profits. (USER WAS BANNED FOR THIS POST)
Destiny Corrupted Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company 1017	Posted - 2012.10.08 07:03:00 - [15] - Quote Jorma Morkkis wrote: Darth Gustav wrote: It can be repeatedly demonstrated that ganking campaings raised the prices of materials successfully brought to market by miners. Successful miners earned more. That is the effect of ganking on mining. A net benefit. Ganking lowers my profit since I don't sell any of the materials but instead I use all to craft ships and modules. Maybe you should have "crafted" some shield extenders instead of expanded cargoholds. (USER WAS BANNED FOR THIS POST)
Destiny Corrupted Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company 1020	Posted - 2012.10.08 07:16:00 - [16] - Quote Jorma Morkkis wrote: Destiny Corrupted wrote: Maybe you should have "crafted" some shield extenders instead of expanded cargoholds. Shield extenders and invuls are low profit crafting products. High supply and low demand force prices down. The tortoise finished the race before the hare. Which is unsurprising, since the tortoise made a big deal out of fitting a tank. This is a great story. I think all miners would do well to read it. (USER WAS BANNED FOR THIS POST)
Destiny Corrupted Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company 1020	Posted - 2012.10.08 07:22:00 - [17] - Quote Oggat wrote: baltec1 wrote: Oggat wrote: Because I know the difference between reproc, market manipulation and mining profits. I also will hold to the firm belief that the only ones absorbing the barge losses were Bots and null sec corp Ops. Solo miners in high sec were not 'enjoying' enough of a spike to adjust for the loss of a Hulk and those were the only ones being targeted by the ganking that was removed, Minerals and ice trippled in price and stablised at that level. I'd say earning three times more isk for your work is a good thing no? After the buff ice has lost 2/3 of its value and its still dropping. So are miners better off now than before the buff? No, they are not. Yes, they are better off. Most miners don't mine Ice. Price is down because of Bots. Mineral prices are spiked because of Drone region nerf and Meta 0 loot removal. High sec Miners never got the benefit of that spike because they had to sink it all back in to new Hulks. Now they might actually get to make a little ISK and keep it. I've given advice to people after being at war with them, which sometimes included mining safety. I directed them to out-of-the-way systems, and they never got ganked, ever. The ones that refused to go out more than five jumps from Jita/Amarr got ganked. I really fail to see why those people should be protected. (USER WAS BANNED FOR THIS POST)
Destiny Corrupted Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company 1029	Posted - 2012.10.08 14:11:00 - [18] - Quote ISD TYPE40 wrote: I think this thread has almost gone as far as it can but I'm not quite willing to close it just yet, if you can all get back on topic. This thread is not another "Issues with mining barges" thread, we already had that. Since ganking isn't restricted to high sec nor is it restricted to barges/exhumers, lets see if we can't get the thread out of this very narrow channel it seems to have gotten wedged in, and back to something resembling its starting point. I genuinely wanted to see what would come of this topic, as I'm pretty sure many of you do. First of all, you have no reason to close this thread, because the barge discussion serves as a source of supporting points for the main topic. As much as CCP wants us to only look at the read ahead of us, we're not that gullible. Terrible game changes don't seem so bad when you can't compare them to things that were done well, right? Second of all, ganking is limited to high-sec. If you think otherwise, then you obviously don't play the game enough to understand what ganking is. Sorry if this hurts your feelings, but I calls them like I sees them. (USER WAS BANNED FOR THIS POST)
Destiny Corrupted Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company 1033	Posted - 2012.10.08 14:50:00 - [19] - Quote Jorma Morkkis wrote: Destiny Corrupted wrote: Second of all, ganking is limited to high-sec. If you think otherwise, then you obviously don't play the game enough to understand what ganking is. Sorry if this hurts your feelings, but I calls them like I sees them. Ganking =/= suicide ganking Although suicide ganking involves ganking. http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=ganking Ganking means suicide-ganking. Anything else is conventional pvp. In EVE, ganking means destroying someone despite NPC intervention. When I bomb someone in who is entering a wormhole, I am not ganking. When I attack a FW enemy in a plex, I am not ganking. When I engage a war target that undocks from a station, I am not ganking. Anyone who does pvp in EVE is able to make this distinction. (USER WAS BANNED FOR THIS POST)